1. According to Horricks (2004), how have perceptions of comics as a media changed?
2. What does Baetons (2001) mean by ‘monstration’, ‘graphiation’ and the ‘graphiateur’’?
3. What does Khordoc think the Asterix series does better than Hergé’s Tintin?
4. Compare the relationship between images and words differ in Hergé (1933) and Spiegelman’s (2004) works.
5. Discuss your reaction to both The Blue Lotus and the Spiegelman extracts. What is your opinion of them? Can you take 'pleasure in the text' (to quote Roland Barthes)?
Hi, girls I'd like to comment on question 2 first.
Baetons(2001) defines graphiation as a subordinate part of narration rather than a different and parallel type of it. He also defines that monstration is different narration type that hierarchically combinated as specific narrative situation in the movies. As for graphiateur, it is defined as the artists' graphic trace or index that enables reader to understand the information fully.
Khordoc points out that Asterix series does better than Herge's Tintin in the aspect of use speech ballons. According to Khordoc, in the beginning of Tintin series, text was put below each panel to accompany the pictures, as well to "explain" the story. Though Herge gradually began to use speech balloons, he hasn't displayed the whole range of sounds graphically. In Herge's work, there are a big portion of speech ballons, Tintin series relys on text much; however, Asterix uses speech balloon code to create sound and to produce the sense of humour. In this case, Tintin series is not as audible as Asterix.
grace i agree with you on the 2nd question.According to Baetons(2001) he describes that "Graphiation is at its strongest point in a drawing that is in a stage of rough copy or sketch". In other words a reader is able to identify something of a drawing than a sketch.anyway i cant seem to find the term monstration in the text.i sahll write more later on wen i find it.=)
Hi guys~ ^^ i want to start with the first question!
It is very obvious that the percetptions of comics have changed. As we can see at the beginning of Horricks(2004), there were anti-comic campaingns in the US, Britain and New Zealand in the early 1950s. However,nowadays "the comics" are perceived in very different ways- For example, it has been awared the Pulitzer Prize, regularly reviewed, academically & socially, and it has become one of the courses in some universities. - like in AUT! ^^* Furthermore, the comics have provided the 'stepping-stone' for the new forms of media. - video games and computer games - and it has become more commercialised and virtualised. Even though there are some disadvantages as the comics become more and more virtualised, i'm sure that they will be keep developing as adapiting much better/high techologies. And i agree with what Horricks(2004)said. - "New artforms bring new aesthetic paradigms" ^^;;
For the second quesion, i think Grace got the point~ i agree with you guys~ ^^ So according to Baetons(2001), simply the 'graphication' is the graphic and narrative expression of the comics and the 'graphiateur' is the agent responsible for it and these have to be worked well together to get the maximum results in the comics. And the 'monstration' is the hierarchical combination of many different types of narration - as Grace mentioned ^^
For question 3, i agree with what Grace said- and would like to add a few comments ^^; According to Khordoc(2001), the 'speech ballon' is one of the special characteristics of comics and the boundary for image and word. It is inevitable to form comics without using the speech ballons because it is used for "hearing" to mean "understanding"(Khordoc, 2001,p.156) With this point, the Asterix series does better than Herge's Tintin. The Tintin is less audible and got more complexity comparing with the Asterix. And also it is affected by the shape and color of speech ballons (p.163). There are more variety of shapes - rectangular than normal oval- and colors in the Asterix to deliver the different kinds of speeches.
Hi guys, for the first question, I agree with what Hanna said. Korea has the same situation as NZ,US and so on. There were some dramas that were based on story of comics and it was really popular. As Hanna said, there are a lot of people who are studying comics in university. one of my friend is studying art for comics. She learnd how to draw picture for comics. As you guys know, picture of comics are different from others, right?
One more thing i wanna say is that nowadays, old generation like my parents more and more accecpt comics as a educational method. I mean, not every comics are educational but because of fun and less words in comics, children like to read comics rather than books. Therefore, there are a lot of educational comics that teach science, general information , about animal and so on.
hey everyone, i would like to comment on question 3.yes i agree with you gals as well...i Think the primary focus on a comic is the speech ballons. According to Khordoc(2001) he describes the text in tintin that the words are not in paragraph and the letters in the comis is "hand-drawn" rather than 'typeset'.In the area of colours and shapse he states that the balloon in tintin's are retangular and yellow whereas in Asteriz the balloons are moslty "white in background".I think the interesting part in Asteriz is that it changes colours from time to time depending on the topic.For instance Khordoc(2001), explains that"In Asterix and the Roman agent,......afftect speech ballons of the other characters in such away that in gradually turns green.I think each colour brings a significance in the comic.
i think there are many more exapmples of why Asteric is much better than Tintin...i shall right more if i get more ideas...pls comment if anything.thakns=)
For the third question, I agree with you girls about that speech balloons. In terms of speech balloons that make ‘sound’ in comics, we can say Asterix does better than Tintin. Khordoc (2001) thinks that Asterix does better than Herges’s Tintin because Asterix is more expressive than Tintin. “though he makes use of onomatopoeia, iconic symbols and other devices to create the effect of sound, Herge has not displayed…the full range of sounds which can be represented graphically …this series is not as “audiable”,or as noisy as other. (p.158)
After i read the comments from Kirsty for question 1, it has reminded me for one thing! kkk
When i was young i didn't like to read books, especailly like histories, about famous people etc. So my mother bought me the booked that published in forms of graphic novel! I really enjoyed reading them insted of reading very thick and block-shape of books and still remember them quite well~~ Funny huh?~!? ^^;;
I want to talk about question 4 and 5 together - if you girls don't mind?~?! ^^*
Above all, i really enjoyed reading both books although i haven't read much for 'In the shadow of no towers'... But the feeling is quite different-
As we talked last week 'Tintin'could appeal for both children and adults but i think 'In the shadow of no towers' is a bit different story... because it is much more dramatic and even bit wild for children to read for both images and words.
'Tintin' manages some heavy topics ,like socially and politically, in a kind of lighter and simpler ways and it used cute and funny images and words. On the other hand, Spiegelman handled very well the stories and feelings of Sept 11th which could be complicated and serious to talk about. The images and words were quite straightfoward and active. As i read 'in the shadow of no towers', i felt like i was watching a documentary film which could mean that it is very vividly described for both words and images.
Both books were very good to read and i could say i've taken pleasure in the text-
hey hanna, i agree with your comment on Question 4 and 5.I think the spiegelman extract is more suitable for adults only.I think children may find it hard to understand as this talks about tradegies and political issues.I think in Blue lotus as we discuss before, its suitable for both children and adultls.This seems to be more of a serious article where adults take the effort to read whereas children may find this boring.I think in Blue lotus there seem to be more images in each situation but not in spiegelman text.it can be seen there is only 1 image in the middle of the text and the same image is used at the back(looks larger).In blue lotus the the text is much more simplified and easier to read whereas in the other text the words are more difficult and the author seems to express more about his thoughts and the situaition that is happening.So far this is my idea.what do you all think??
Hi gals.regarding Question 1.I agree with you too hanna.I think comics are evolving more especially in terms of media.i think one good example is "the sims".This game is more like a media game where it is produce as a computer games, playstation,xbox and so that can also be viewed on Tv.Acording to Horricks(2004), he states that stuff like Harry porter,vice city the sims and so on are shaping the "aesthetic interest and pirotires of the emerging generation of artist and audiences"(pg 21). So i think we cna see a change in comics as horricks states that "we explore the worlds that we and our children bulid".This helps people umderstand themselves better.=)
Hi, Deli You got the point. True, according to Khordoc, Asterix uses different shapes and colors of speech ballons to achieve the sound effect. In Asterix, some balloons are oval, some are rectangular and they have different coloured background according to the different functions. What is more, some of the speech balloons are no tails to point to a character, which indicates that they're the narrator's comments rather than the utterance of characters'. Yet in Tintin series, all the balloons are rectangular and yellow backgrounded and there are less impression of sound.
Hi, girls I agree with all of yours opinions about question 1. According to Horricks(2004), there were anti-comics campaigns in the U.S.A, U.K and therefore, in New Zealand the issue about comics was raised at that time. Also from our own experiences, comics were not welcomed by the teachers and parents in the past, it was regarded as useless. However, these days, comics have been accepted by the teachers and parents, even used in an academic way like we are doing in this paper. Moreover, comics have been regularly reviewed as a kind of books and won certain rewards. All of these show the change of perceptions of comics.
16 comments:
1. According to Horricks (2004), how have
perceptions of comics as a media changed?
2. What does Baetons (2001) mean by
‘monstration’, ‘graphiation’ and the ‘graphiateur’’?
3. What does Khordoc think the Asterix
series does better than Hergé’s Tintin?
4. Compare the relationship between images and
words differ in Hergé (1933) and Spiegelman’s (2004) works.
5. Discuss your reaction to both The Blue Lotus and the Spiegelman extracts. What is your opinion of them? Can you take 'pleasure in the text' (to quote Roland Barthes)?
Hi, girls
I'd like to comment on question 2 first.
Baetons(2001) defines graphiation as a subordinate part of narration rather than a different and parallel type of it. He also defines that monstration is different narration type that hierarchically combinated as specific narrative situation in the movies. As for graphiateur, it is defined as the artists' graphic trace or index that enables reader to understand the information fully.
As for question 4, I have some ideas as follow:
Khordoc points out that Asterix series does better than Herge's Tintin in the aspect of use speech ballons. According to Khordoc, in the beginning of Tintin series, text was put below each panel to accompany the pictures, as well to "explain" the story. Though Herge gradually began to use speech balloons, he hasn't displayed the whole range of sounds graphically. In Herge's work, there are a big portion of speech ballons, Tintin series relys on text much; however, Asterix uses speech balloon code to create sound and to produce the sense of humour. In this case, Tintin series is not as audible as Asterix.
Hey everyone,
grace i agree with you on the 2nd question.According to Baetons(2001) he describes that "Graphiation is at its strongest point in a drawing that is in a stage of rough copy or sketch". In other words a reader is able to identify something of a drawing than a sketch.anyway i cant seem to find the term monstration in the text.i sahll write more later on wen i find it.=)
Hi guys~ ^^
i want to start with the first question!
It is very obvious that the percetptions of comics have changed.
As we can see at the beginning of Horricks(2004), there were anti-comic campaingns in the US, Britain and New Zealand in the early 1950s.
However,nowadays "the comics" are perceived in very different ways-
For example, it has been awared the Pulitzer Prize, regularly reviewed, academically & socially, and it has become one of the courses in some universities. - like in AUT! ^^*
Furthermore, the comics have provided the 'stepping-stone' for the new forms of media. - video games and computer games - and it has become more commercialised and virtualised.
Even though there are some disadvantages as the comics become more and more virtualised, i'm sure that they will be keep developing as adapiting much better/high techologies.
And i agree with what Horricks(2004)said. - "New artforms bring new aesthetic paradigms" ^^;;
For the second quesion, i think Grace got the point~ i agree with you guys~ ^^
So according to Baetons(2001), simply the 'graphication' is the graphic and narrative expression of the comics and the 'graphiateur' is the agent responsible for it and these have to be worked well together to get the maximum results in the comics.
And the 'monstration' is the hierarchical combination of many different types of narration - as Grace mentioned ^^
For question 3, i agree with what Grace said- and would like to add a few comments ^^;
According to Khordoc(2001), the 'speech ballon' is one of the special characteristics of comics and the boundary for image and word.
It is inevitable to form comics without using the speech ballons because it is used for "hearing" to mean "understanding"(Khordoc, 2001,p.156)
With this point, the Asterix series does better than Herge's Tintin. The Tintin is less audible and got more complexity comparing with the Asterix.
And also it is affected by the shape and color of speech ballons (p.163). There are more variety of shapes - rectangular than normal oval- and colors in the Asterix to deliver the different kinds of speeches.
Hi guys, for the first question, I agree with what Hanna said. Korea has the same situation as NZ,US and so on. There were some dramas that were based on story of comics and it was really popular. As Hanna said, there are a lot of people who are studying comics in university. one of my friend is studying art for comics. She learnd how to draw picture for comics. As you guys know, picture of comics are different from others, right?
One more thing i wanna say is that nowadays, old generation like my parents more and more accecpt comics as a educational method. I mean, not every comics are educational but because of fun and less words in comics, children like to read comics rather than books. Therefore, there are a lot of educational comics that teach science, general information , about animal and so on.
hey everyone, i would like to comment on question 3.yes i agree with you gals as well...i Think the primary focus on a comic is the speech ballons. According to Khordoc(2001) he describes the text in tintin that the words are not in paragraph and the letters in the comis is "hand-drawn" rather than 'typeset'.In the area of colours and shapse he states that the balloon in tintin's are retangular and yellow whereas in Asteriz the balloons are moslty "white in background".I think the interesting part in Asteriz is that it changes colours from time to time depending on the topic.For instance Khordoc(2001), explains that"In Asterix and the Roman agent,......afftect speech ballons of the other characters in such away that in gradually turns green.I think each colour brings a significance in the comic.
i think there are many more exapmples of why Asteric is much better than Tintin...i shall right more if i get more ideas...pls comment if anything.thakns=)
For the third question, I agree with you girls about that speech balloons. In terms of speech balloons that make ‘sound’ in comics, we can say Asterix does better than Tintin.
Khordoc (2001) thinks that Asterix does better than Herges’s Tintin because Asterix is more expressive than Tintin. “though he makes use of onomatopoeia, iconic symbols and other devices to create the effect of sound, Herge has not displayed…the full range of sounds which can be represented graphically …this series is not as “audiable”,or as noisy as other. (p.158)
After i read the comments from Kirsty for question 1, it has reminded me for one thing! kkk
When i was young i didn't like to read books, especailly like histories, about famous people etc. So my mother bought me the booked that published in forms of graphic novel! I really enjoyed reading them insted of reading very thick and block-shape of books and still remember them quite well~~
Funny huh?~!? ^^;;
I want to talk about question 4 and 5 together - if you girls don't mind?~?! ^^*
Above all, i really enjoyed reading both books although i haven't read much for 'In the shadow of no towers'...
But the feeling is quite different-
As we talked last week 'Tintin'could appeal for both children and adults but i think 'In the shadow of no towers' is a bit different story...
because it is much more dramatic and even bit wild for children to read for both images and words.
'Tintin' manages some heavy topics ,like socially and politically, in a kind of lighter and simpler ways and it used cute and funny images and words.
On the other hand, Spiegelman handled very well the stories and feelings of Sept 11th which could be complicated and serious to talk about. The images and words were quite straightfoward and active. As i read 'in the shadow of no towers', i felt like i was watching a documentary film which could mean that it is very vividly described for both words and images.
Both books were very good to read and i could say i've taken pleasure in the text-
hey hanna, i agree with your comment on Question 4 and 5.I think the spiegelman extract is more suitable for adults only.I think children may find it hard to understand as this talks about tradegies and political issues.I think in Blue lotus as we discuss before, its suitable for both children and adultls.This seems to be more of a serious article where adults take the effort to read whereas children may find this boring.I think in Blue lotus there seem to be more images in each situation but not in spiegelman text.it can be seen there is only 1 image in the middle of the text and the same image is used at the back(looks larger).In blue lotus the the text is much more simplified and easier to read whereas in the other text the words are more difficult and the author seems to express more about his thoughts and the situaition that is happening.So far this is my idea.what do you all think??
Hi gals.regarding Question 1.I agree with you too hanna.I think comics are evolving more especially in terms of media.i think one good example is "the sims".This game is more like a media game where it is produce as a computer games, playstation,xbox and so that can also be viewed on Tv.Acording to Horricks(2004), he states that stuff like Harry porter,vice city the sims and so on are shaping the "aesthetic interest and pirotires of the emerging generation of artist and audiences"(pg 21). So i think we cna see a change in comics as horricks states that "we explore the worlds that we and our children bulid".This helps people umderstand themselves better.=)
Hi, Deli
You got the point. True, according to Khordoc, Asterix uses different shapes and colors of speech ballons to achieve the sound effect. In Asterix, some balloons are oval, some are rectangular and they have different coloured background according to the different functions. What is more, some of the speech balloons are no tails to point to a character, which indicates that they're the narrator's comments rather than the utterance of characters'. Yet in Tintin series, all the balloons are rectangular and yellow backgrounded and there are less impression of sound.
Hi, girls
I agree with all of yours opinions about question 1. According to Horricks(2004), there were anti-comics campaigns in the U.S.A, U.K and therefore, in New Zealand the issue about comics was raised at that time. Also from our own experiences, comics were not welcomed by the teachers and parents in the past, it was regarded as useless. However, these days, comics have been accepted by the teachers and parents, even used in an academic way like we are doing in this paper. Moreover, comics have been regularly reviewed as a kind of books and won certain rewards. All of these show the change of perceptions of comics.
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